January 24, 2008...12:23 am

Isn’t It Time We Talked About Sex?

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“Katy, we want you to sign this.”

I looked around at the handful of my girl friends who had called me into one of their dorm rooms. One of them held up a piece of white cardstock with something printed on it. A gold medallion sticker, like the ones on high school academic awards, gleamed in one corner.

“What is it?” I asked.

“A covenant. A commitment not to kiss any more guys until your wedding day,” the de facto leader replied.

I raised one eyebrow, “You want me to make a covenant . . . with you . . . not to kiss?”

“Not with us. With God,” Another chimed in. “We’re signing our own too. You’ve got to get this under control. We’ll keep you accountable.”

I scanned the faces of my friends, “Seriously?”

But I knew the answer before the word even left my lips. They were serious. Very serious.

I don’t exactly remember what happened next. I’m pretty sure there was lots of laughing on my end, and a “Who do you think you are?” had to have come up at least once. I really couldn’t believe they’d nailed me with a freakin’ intervention — Sure, I’d been on several dates and had even kissed a guy since I’d been at HSU. And, sure, those dates and kisses hadn’t (thankfully) panned out into relationships. Maybe they could argue I’d jumped the gun a little here and there, but not enough to need an intervention. Not enough to draw up any contracts. I wasn’t majoring in NCL. I wasn’t just making out with any guy who called. (At that point) I’d kissed one guy, with whom I’d gone on a handful of dates, twice. That’s it. I was getting railed for one guy? What kind of world had I moved to? I already had a purity ring; what more did these girls want?

Needless to say, I didn’t sign their contract.

(Did I end up kissing some guys I wish I hadn’t? You betcha. Do I want Caelyn to walk firmly in my footsteps? Please no. Did I regret not signing? No way. Would I take back all of my meaningful relationships before Chris? Not a chance. Would I undo all my premarital kissing? Not likely.)

That was early in my first semester at Hardin-Simmons. Later that year, the two main interveners and I all had serious boyfriends. The “leader” kept her contract. She and her fella didn’t even hold hands. They eventually got married, but it was too late. He was already deep into pornography. Today, they’re divorced and she’s given up belief in any god. On the first day back from Spring Break, the other girl and I made plans to drive to Dallas to go shopping first thing in the morning. We ran into each other in the hall at 8 a.m; we were both just getting home. And I gotta tell ya; her lips were lookin’ pretty raw. “Yeah, I tore the contract up,” she laughed, “He didn’t shave much over the Break.” (For the record, she and I are still very close friends. And don’t let the hour fool you. We’d just been kissing and talking and doing all the innocent things couples do when they’re in love and haven’t seen each other in a week.)

The truth is, that wasn’t my first run-in with those kinds of ideas. Oh, it was my first (and only) intervention, but that basic premise had been floating around my circles for years. I Kissed Dating Goodbye was at its height of popularity. (I did read it, but I can’t remember it well enough to make any sort of comment on it.) Kids were flooding the capital, declaring to the nation that “True Love Waits.” My university was even more full of 18-year-old girls, who were eager to wait, eager to please God. They weren’t going to risk screwing that up by jumping on the slippery slope of kissing.

But most of them did eventually. So they made up more rules. No french kissing. No kissing while sitting down. No kissing on the furniture. No kissing on the floor. No kissing while wearing a tank top. No kissing below the collar bone. No touching anywhere but on the lips while kissing. No kissing for more than 10 minutes. No kissing in the car. No kissing without someone else nearby.

You get my drift.

Now, I’m not saying any of those things is wrong. I’m not saying those methods don’t work for anyone. And I’m not saying that refraining from any premarital physical contact ruined the previously mentioned couple’s marriage. I know people who didn’t kiss until marriage who are perfectly satisfied with their relationships today and don’t regret their decision to wait at all. But I know a whole lot more people for whom the “system” just didn’t work. Rules only bred broken rules, which only produced more rules to prevent the re-breaking of the previous ones, which only left them with a pile of rules broken two-times over . . . and guilt, guilt that sometimes destroyed perfectly good relationships and almost always negatively impacted the members of those relationships in a personal way.

Don’t hear me wrong; I’m not promoting premarital sex. I’m not even promoting reckless kissing. And I’m certainly not promoting relationships with no set boundaries or precautions. I’m just not promoting the idea that every young, viable Christian should have a sexual rule book on his nightstand that he believes, if followed, will result in a healthy relationship with God and a healthy relationship with his girlfriend. It just doesn’t work very often. More than that, it legalizes purity and sex and even love. It shortchanges God on sincerity. And it leaves young Christians thinking that they’ve covered their bases. So long as they adhere to the rule book, they’re safe.

I’m at the end of Andrew Beaujon’s Body Piercing Saved My Life; these last couple chapters feature his experience, as a nonbeliever, in a worship setting. I don’t think I have to tell you that I’m not opposed to worship music. I married a worship pastor for crying out loud. But Beaujon hits on something I think is pretty interesting and, quite possibly, pretty accurate.

“This isn’t music to appreciate; it’s music to experience. People at a worship service close their eyes and, as ecstasy spreads across their faces, begin to rock rhythmically, arms out, mouthing the lyrics. It’s more than a little sexual and a tad uncomfortable if you’re sitting next to an attractive person who’s been overcome by the Spirit” (159).

Later, he shares a conversation with David Di Sabatino, former editor of Worship Leader Magazine and a historian who specializes in the Jesus Movement.

“‘Vineyard was a shift away from Scripture and song to more intimate, very passion-filled songs of praise to God, of personal intimacy,’ Di Sabatino told me. ‘It’s almost like, in a crude way, you could say, “Jesus is my girlfriend” songs.’ I told Di Sabatino I thought there was an unsettling, near-sexual character to one of the worship services I’d been to. ‘Nobody talks about it, but that’s pretty much what’s going on,’ he said. ‘They’re having this intense, experiential experience with God. Very intimate, very private, very all-encompassing’” (233).

I’m not opposed to “worshipping the way you feel the Spirit leading.” Even though I don’t do much hand-raising personally, I’m from a family of hand-raisers. And I’m definitely not opposed to having an intimate, meaningful relationship with God and expressing feelings of intimacy, praise, adoration, and awe to him. The nuances between corporate worship and private worship, the blending of the two, aren’t really what I’m talking about here. (But if you want to bring them up, that’s fine by me.) I’m talking about that sexuality that Beaujon picked up on. Well, sort of. I’m not really talking about the notion of dating Jesus, which generally makes me feel squeamish, although I can appreciate feeling the need to focus your attention solely on Jesus and your ministry. I’m talking about something more subtle. Something that on the surface looks good, and can even be good, but often times poisons new Christian relationships, particularly young ones.

For a time, the leaders of our small group meetings (Point Teams) at our church in Abilene (Crosspoint Fellowship) were supposed to engage us with questions connected to the previous Sunday’s sermon. We called this plan the “Points of Interest.” I’d be lying if I said we always stuck to the questions. There were even times when John forgot to write the Points of Interests or he had, but as our leader, he’d say, “This question sucks. I’m not even going to ask it.” But we must have been using the Points of Interest on the Thursday after the sermon about the Spiritual Living Room, because I don’t know how else it would’ve ever been brought up.

I’ll admit; I don’t know what the Spiritual Living Room is or even which sermon series it was a part of. Something about making people feel welcome. Something that involved free cheesecake and hotdogs at the pastor’s house. (Anybody else remember? Walt, you should’ve been leading the same discussion at your apartment.) But I do remember that when it came up at Point Team, I made a joke about how guys at HSU might as well use lines like, “Hey, Baby, you wanna see my spiritual bedroom?”

We all laughed and took that idea into places that we maybe even shouldn’t have, but the notion behind the joke was true, and it’s not really that funny.

I entered my first real, meaningful relationship during my Freshman year of college, and after that one ended, I generally stayed on the more serious side of dating, but even so, I knew plenty about the spiritual bedroom. Before my first semester at HSU had wrapped, I’d sat in a massive worship gathering (Grace) and overheard several girls saying they hoped some guy saw them dancing in the aisles that night. I’d seen couples build their relationships upon the rush from nights out with the Grace witnessing army (which itself is a whole other issue). I knew new couples whose relationships were fueled (almost solely) by their very intimate prayer times together, which they’d been having since their very first dates. I’d gone on a mission trip with mostly guys and spent the evenings talking about spiritual matters with them. Afterwards, one of them was so entranced by our “connection” that he was willing to move to Abilene to be with me. (I turned him firmly down.) I’d had a handful of guys spend entire nights talking to me about faith and God and spiritual stuff and the next day they wanted me to believe they were in love with me. We were “meant to be together.” “God” had “brought us together.”

I’ve no doubt that we use spirituality to manipulate. If you’re hoping to attract some boy by trying to manufacture a takeover by the Spirit, something has definitely gone awry. (I even think we sometimes try to manipulate God and feel better about our relationships with him by engaging in super-emotional super-spirituality that either disappears when the lights come up or disintegrates when questions and crises that demand solid faith push in.) But I don’t think those guys were trying to pull something. They really believed what they were saying. They’d felt a connection with me — a spiritual one — and mistaken it for lasting, romantic intimacy.

Which takes me back to the kissing contract.

I know that a lot of guys (and girls for that matter) are “only looking for one thing.” But Christian guys are another story. Sure, they’ve got plenty of natural desire for that “one thing” too. But a lot of them also deeply, earnestly want a spiritually intimate relationship with a girl just as much. And we all know women want intimacy. The trouble is, with all these precautions and sexual rule books, we can get so caught up with watching our stop watches to ensure we don’t pass the 10 minute make-out mark that we forget to look out for false intimacy. You know — the kind that develops in crisis situations . . . or long, spiritual nights of bearing your soul to a member of the opposite sex whom you barely know? In the end, it’s false intimacy (of this nature and others), I think, that so often leads Christian couples to inappropriate physical intimacy, and sadly, even to marriages that end in heartbreak.

—- For the record, I’m not decrying “chemistry” or the importance and reality of feeling a connection, even an instant one, with someone else. That doesn’t happen too often, and it’s usually worth pursuing. (Although I’d venture “The One” notion can lead to some trouble, but that’s another post.) And I’m not talking about not having serious spiritual conversations in serious relationships. (Although seeing a person suddenly become spiritual once they start dating someone does concern me; that’s not exactly the same as “iron sharpening iron” and bringing out the best in each other, which are both good things.) I’m not suggesting you shouldn’t be deeply and intimately honest with someone you love but are not yet married to. And, by all means, don’t marry someone if you haven’t talked about spiritual things or if you can’t connect in that way. But, even then, I think a little restraint is called for. After all, your virginity’s not the only thing you can’t ever get back. Words can be just as priceless. —-

I know I’m bringing up tons of controversial ideas, and to be honest, I’m not even sure how to wrap this all up or what kind of statement I want to make. Really, I don’t think Beaujon meant to hit on any of those issues or make any definitive statement either. I’d guess he’s mainly just making an observation, but that observation has the potential to say some very poignant things about Christian subculture, I think. And it gave me an opportunity to think about the Spiritual Bedroom again, a good thing for a parent to contemplate, if you ask me.

With a baby in the house and an active imagination, it’s hard not to think about the future and what issues she’ll face. I know sex will be one of them. (She’s going to be a knock-out, after all.) And I hope that when she’s old enough, we’ll be able to talk about this kind of stuff honestly, in a way that doesn’t make her feel like she needs to write up her own rule book or say no out of obligation or guilt. I realize that encouraging her to simply follow a set of precautionary rules seems easier and might even result in keeping her “safe” until marriage. But I don’t just want to keep her “safe.” I want her to be secure within herself, and eventually in her relationships, because of her identity in Christ. I want her to know freedom, not confinement, wisdom, not blind submission, in her faith. On the other side, I don’t want her to be afraid of intimacy or risks or being close to someone she may not marry either. I’m still not sure how to teach her those things. But I figure, if she can learn to guard her heart first; the rest will follow.

* All quotes from:

Beaujon, Andrew. 2006. Body Piercing Saved My Life: Inside the Phenomenon of Christian Rock. Cambridge, MA: Da Capo Press.

18 Comments

  • Interesting article, it important though that teach her the right way to date and abstiness before marriage is key more info at Love Dating and marriage relationships

  • Katy, this is probably the best post I’ve ever read on a blog, and I hope that comment doesn’t offend any of my blog buddies.

    You’ve hit a host of issues that are really interesting, and I think you’ve been pretty much honest in your assessment. The Christian college/worship movement sort of brings its own set of dangers, and I wonder if we were sort of the first generation to go through that stuff. Now we have to parent through it.

    I also can’t help but think that most of my friends that successfully navigated that time had a healthy dose of cynicism/sarcasm/intelligence in their personality. The ones that didn’t? Well, a lot of them came out damaged, and I know plenty that haven’t really figured out what they should be doing with God. And I suppose there are others that are fine, but that sort of bothers me, because I think that they should have seen the “pretense” of the whole situation.

    Farky and I have talked a lot about the fact that worship today can be a just as much about pursuing a feeling or even trying to act a certain way that the majesty of God is neglected. That’s where the Poison post is headed (tomorrow); the ceremony of the Eucharist is good, I think, because it’s difficult to fake.

    The spiritual intimacy mistaken for love is a great insight, as well, one that I hadn’t put together on my own, but now readily agree with. You’re absolutely right about that; college students are often unable to figure out how to differentiate between spiritual intimacy and love. Of course, we may have different ways of approaching romantic love…I have a bit of cynic in me on that one, too. There’s something about decision and commitment that you lose in the early, making out stages.

    P.S. I kissed WAY too many girls in college. But I’m certain I married the right one.

  • Wow! Thank you, Steve!

    I think you might be right about our gen. being the first to go through that movement. I’ve thought a lot about the nature of that movement and what it produces (both good & bad), but I hadn’t really thought about how to parent through it until now.

    You make a good point about the “cynicism/sarcasm/intelligence” that seems to be required to come out of that movement successfully. I’ve thought the same thing about not seeing the “pretense.”

    I’m looking forward to reading your next set of thoughts on worship! I agree; today’s worship can blur the line between feeling and reality. What’s labeled “authentic” often ends up being synthetic. That’s not to say contemporary worship is wrong — far from it — but the consequences of that sort of participation can run high. I liked your Poison post a lot. (But I read it on the iPhone, so I refrained from commenting.) Your closing points are beautiful and profound. The way memory is connected to little things picked up by the senses has always fascinated me. But I hadn’t ever thought to tie that to worship. Remembering, I think, is a biblical idea and it seems fit to include it in worship.

    I’m glad you got what I was saying about mistaking spiritual intimacy for something else! I was a little worried about the terminology, since people have different views on intimacy and love. You got my message perfectly. We may have different approaches toward love, but I wouldn’t count on them being too different. I admit to being a bit of a Romantic and an Idealist, but I’m also a cynic. (Chris was just noting what a strange combination that is.) I don’t know if I’ve always had some cynicism about love or if life gave it to me along the way, but I’ve definitely got some. I’ve got several problems with a lot of current Christian ideas on romance and love for sure. And I agree with your early stages comment.

    I still don’t think premarital kissing is sinful, but making out can certainly breed a false intimacy too. Even when the intimacy is true, making out can put a tint on the decision and commitment required to make a relationship last. (Neither of those post-Spring Break relationships were still in the “early making out stage.”) That’s at least part of what I meant when I said the notion of “The One” can cause some trouble. College kids get so enamored with whomever they believe is their “one” that they either let the hard decision-making slide because, “Hey, I already know he’s the One!” or they make blind commitments for the same reasons. I’ve witnessed several couples meet, fall instantly “in love,” and get married, only to wonder later if the one they married isn’t really the One. I even know girls my age who’ve left their husbands solely on the belief that they missed out on the one God intended for them along. “It would be better to be divorced and find the One God made for me, than stay married to someone who’s not,” they said. My counsel for those girls was, “Could there be someone else, maybe even multiple someone elses, with whom you could have a deep connection and a decently happy marriage? Probably. But marriage isn’t ultimately about ‘the one.’ Love isn’t about ‘the one.’ It’s about choosing. It’s about committing to work at loving the person you’ve chosen. It’s about choosing that person every day, even when they don’t make you ‘happy’ and even when they grow and change into someone who will most likely (especially if you marry in your early 20s) be somewhat different than the person you married on your wedding day.”

    That said, I also certainly kissed more guys in college than I should have. But I know I chose the right one to marry too.

  • Good stuff, Katy. And lots of stuff. But the one thing I keep thinking about: the older I get, the more I’m convinced that Grace was really a messed up (as in, unhealthy) scene.

  • I read this at work early this morning and have been thinking about it throughout the day. I (also) think you are right on.

    My good friends and I have had SO many conversations about purity and relationships and “how far is too far” and I think that we’ve all reached the conclusion that no two relationships are alike, and that the limits and boundaries we set for ourselves depend on a variety of circumstances that you can’t even begin to make rules about. What works for me doesn’t work for her and on and on…Anyhow, we’ve also talked a lot about the guilt that follows when “rules” are broken, or when things go way too far.

    We all went through True Love Waits, signed the cards and discussed the books in small group just before high school. And, as we got older and realized just how hard things were going to be, we started making plans much like the ones you’ve talked about here.

    Now that we’re all older and (hopefully) wiser and are in/have been through different stages in relationships, we’ve begun to realize how out of whack some of the things we were taught in youth group are. I don’t think it was intentional, but somewhere along the way “NO SEX EVER” was so heavily enforced that if left us with the impression that having sex before you’re married is pretty much the worst sin you could possibly commit. For friends who did cross the line, or who are in relationships with guys who have in previous relationships, that teaching (pre-marital sex=death) has been extremely difficult to work past, and in some cases fairly detrimental.

    I guess what I’m trying to say, is that I think they taught us what they did in hopes of preventing these types of situations altogether, but neglected to teach us that grace and healing and forgiveness exist for people that commit the “worst sin ever” just like grace exists for all the other crap we’re guilty of. They also failed to teach us how hard it was going to be. (I remember one time at College Bible Study, Lex said that no one taught them that either, so I’m sure that wasn’t just our youth group.)

    Even though I haven’t really been thinking about parenting, I have thought a lot about how things would be if I had been taught differently, and how things could have been better for some of my friends. Honestly, I guess I won’t ever know. Maybe it is one of those things you have to figure out for yourself. In fact, I’m STILL figuring it out for myself…hello, I ain’t married!

    Anyway, good thoughts! :)

  • Lex!! Abstiness rocks!!

    That makes me think about that preacher (What was his name?) on TV in Abilene who put a “t” on the ends of words that really ended in “d.” “Savedt! By the bloodt!” I haven’t thought about him in a long time!

    I think you’re right about Grace. (But I’m not necessarily criticizing specific individuals, and I can’t really speak about it prior to 1999, although I went a few times with my sister before then.) I know people who say they benefited from it and I guess the intentions of most of the leaders and participants were “good,” but it was still “really messed up” in several ways. I could probably write about it in-depth and speak more on that “sexual” quality of worship and the nature of worship that uses a sort of formula to elicit a particular response, but here’s what comes to mind first. . . .

    On my first night at Grace as an actual college student, I remember feeling that something was off, looking around, wondering, “What’s really causing all these people to act this way?” A few weeks in, I heard those girls talking about hoping so-and-so saw them dancing. Later, I heard a guy say, “I’m so gonna be dancing for the Lord tonight! Watch out!!!” (which is a little disturbing on many levels). On Thursday mornings, I’d hear girls in the dorm saying how they couldn’t wait to get to Grace, to get “that feeling.” Being refreshed at a worship service, isn’t wrong, of course. But actually going for the feeling? Participating for the feeling? And manufacturing the feeling for your own purposes, if for some reason the service just doesn’t do it for you? My roommates also tried to get me to go to their church specifically so I could experience that same feeling on Sundays. The “Spirit was so alive” in their sanctuary that the minister was turning people’s teeth to gold.

    It wasn’t just during the music part either. During the preaching, the crowd seemed “rallied,” for lack of a better word. Being called together for a common cause isn’t always bad, but passion can be blinding. Group think can be disastrous. Zeal without wisdom, devastating. (Need I mention the Crusades? The Inquisition? Salem?) Do you know what I mean by “the Grace witnessing army”? The hundreds of college kids they got all fired up during Grace and then took out — together — to stand outside Abilene’s most popular club, where they chanted and bombarded exiting patrons with fire and brimstone tracts? The “army” that had to disband after the police got involved? The one on the evening news?!

    (Again, I don’t think everyone involved in that situation had bad motives. The story, in case you don’t know, goes on — after the news piece and the police, Grace’s speaker called the army into retreat and said from the pulpit that he had gotten it all wrong. Things had gotten out of control. They needed a new plan. Small sects continued to go out afterwards, but they went to several different clubs and stopped chanting. Incidentally, my lead intervener was one of the main people who went out after Grace for as long as Grace was around.)

    I never participated in the army, and I kind of felt like my faith was questioned for it. Upperclassmen, who were Grace leaders, told me I needed to get out there for Jesus, and if for some reason I didn’t feel called to, I should at least go with the smaller group who would be interceding, from home base, for those in the battlefield. I’d turn them down and the next week they’d ask again. In a way, it really felt like they were witnessing to me.

    When I decided that I didn’t want to be a part of the scene at all, my friends were worried. “Katy’s falling into the black hole my youth minister warned us about.” “Katy’s putting her boyfriend before Jesus; why else would she go on a date on Thursday night instead of to Grace?” When I talked to them about how I just felt that something wasn’t right — this was unhealthy, even dangerous — they thought I just wasn’t as in tune with the Spirit as they were.

    Maybe they were right. Maybe I missed it. But thinking about it today, it’s still disconcerting.

    PS — I know! It was a lot of stuff! I even had use dividing asterisks! There are definitely ideas in there that could’ve had their own posts. I don’t know why, but I keep writing posts/comments that are even longer than what I usually do.

  • Thanks, Jamie! And thanks for your good thoughts too!

    In my later college years, I had some of the same conversations with my girl friends. And now, my good friends and I have given lots of thought to the role guilt plays in the mainstream Christian thinking of our generation — guilt as a motivator, guilt as a hinderance, guilt as a very prevalent product of some/most of the teaching we got in youth groups about maintaining one’s personal relationship with God and dealing with “societal pressures.” Like you and your friends, when it came to sex, we had the same conclusions. A ring, a covenant, a Bible study, a book, a public statement — none of these things proved to be something to hold on to when the heat got turned up. That’s why they were created; “hormonal kids can’t be trusted to think straight when sex is involved; if we could put a ring on their finger and a card in their back pocket, then when they start touching something they shouldn’t, they’ll remember to do the right thing.” But, in the end, all of those things were just things.

    To be clear, I’m not saying those are bad things. Sometimes they even work. Making covenant with God and bearing a symbol of that covenant (i.e., circumcision and baptism) is a very biblical idea. It’s just that reading a book and signing a card at a table in your youth room isn’t hardly the same as making a decision when it counts. I realize, like you said, that the purpose of those kinds of teachings is to keep kids from getting to “when it counts.” Prevention is the name of the game. Getting kids together and convincing them of the same message will help them keep each other convicted of that message when they’re “in the real world.” And, guilt, it seems, is a small price to pay for kids who stay virgins until marriage. It all sounds good; but I’m not so sure it is.

    Your thoughts about the consequences of being taught that “premarital sex = death” are dead on. You end up with kids ravaged with guilt, who don’t have a true understanding of grace. Kids who cast judgment on their peers. Marriages that fall apart when one reveals past sexual encounters to the other. Dishonesty that creeps in because you just can’t bear the shame, not even with your current significant other, with yourself, or with God. Married couples who struggle to embrace martial sexual freedom because for so long they’ve had “SEX IS BAD” repeating on a reel in their brain. Dating relationships that end because the two people just can’t stop making out and getting too close to “the line.” That, they think, must be indicative of a problem. And I’m sure it could be. If you’re just together for the sexual attraction, your relationship’s headed nowhere good. BUT that’s not always the case. In fact, if you don’t have at least a little trouble staying on the “right side of the line,” I might even say you’ve got a whole other problem. A man and a woman, even a Christian man and woman, who love each other ought to have some serious attraction to each other. It shouldn’t be easy.

    But you’re right about youth group leaders making kids think it is. I’m pretty sure I’ve had the same conversation with Lex before. And I’ve had it with other people too. My personal youth experience was a little different, because we never had a bona-fide youth pastor and boys generally outnumbered girls 3 to 1. They took a slightly different approach to talking about sex as a whole. We did the “Song of Solomon” study. A health professional showed us videos about STDs (essentially, it was Sex Ed. with 100% abstinence taught, because condoms just aren’t reliable). A married couple in the church spent an evening talking with us about how if you can just wait until marriage, you can do ANYTHING you want with your spouse. (That one was more than a little disgusting.) But the underlying message about premarital sex was the same: it’s horrible and if you just say to yourself that you won’t do it and follow a set of rules — like James Dobson’s levels of intimacy, for example — you’ll be fine.

    It’s definitely false advertising. Rock n’ roll probably spoke more truth in some regards: sex is awesome, you’re gonna want it, it’s gonna be hot, and it can really mess things up.

    I think considering how it was for you and how things could’ve been different if you’d been taught differently is a good place to start when it comes to parenting. (Although Cosby says nobody ever learned anything about being a good parent by once having been a kid.) My parents did a good job modeling purity, fidelity, and love. And I think that counts for a lot. But I still want to do some things differently.

    And I think you’re right; it does come down to figuring it out for yourself. But I think there’s got to be a way to set the stage for learning that purity isn’t about following the rules. It’s not about making a new covenant with God. It’s about the one you’ve already made with him; it’s about what he’s already begun in your heart and your life, and what he’ll continue to do until that work is complete.

    * Yeah, I think I’ve definitely got Long Comments Disease.

  • I think youth group kids should sign contracts entitled called “I french-kissed dating hello.”

  • I’m sure you heard about the time that a pretty, little mutual friend of ours was leaving one of those clubs, and someone from the Grace Army approached him. The Grace Soldier asked, “Do you know Jesus Christ?” Our pretty, little friend, having spent a few hours drinking and hearing loud music, didn’t really understand–he thought the Soldier asked, “Are you a Christian?” His response: “I Am.”

  • Allie, why couldn’t we have gone to college together? I’d have signed your contract, even if it didn’t have a gold medal sticker on it.

    Lex! I DID know that story about the pretty, little I Am. But I forgot about it until you just wrote it down! Hilarious! Man, I love that story. And I love that it’s about PLK. It just wouldn’t be the same with anyone who wasn’t quite so pretty and little.

  • For the sake of leaving a reply before Claire awakens, I haven’t read the other replies yet, so I may leave another later.

    A few thoughts…
    This is an excellent and thought-provoking post. I really enjoyed reading it!

    Our pastor just spoke about the rules that we make on Sunday. You can hear an great sermon about drinking via podcast at http://www.beltway.org (Katy, if you have time to listen, we could have a good discussion later about it and family views.) In the sermon he talked about how the OT leaders made rules like fences to not break the Law given by God. They probably were well-intentioned at first. But those rules/fences were what Jesus condemned later in the NT because they created legalism instead of relationship. (As a side, every single Law that God gives is to better our relationship with Him and our relationships with others. All of His Laws make life work, whether you are a believer or a non-believer. That is why great societies are built on those principles and why relationships and life works when we follow them.) Far too often, we still create fences/rules to “protect” (I suppose) or keep ourselves from going against God’s ways, i.e. church views on dancing, mixed-bathing, drinking, music, etc.

    I am hopeful that there is a shift in what we’re teaching Christian young people today. Purity is not just about not having sex. It is so much more. I think for so long, we did not talk about sex at all in the church or in Christian circles. So, it was a start to begin with “True Love Waits” and other well-intended campaigns. But, there is so much more to teach the youth of our day about purity of mind, emotion, spirit, and body. That purity will never be achieved through a set of rules but only through relationship. And isn’t that the point of it anyway? To strengthen our relationship with the Lord and with others in our lives?

    …times up!

  • Thanks, JSmo! I’m glad you enjoyed it!

    I’ll have to give that sermon a listen when I get a chance. I’m sure we could talk at length about family views on drinking and related ideas. . . . Just don’t get me trapped at the food court in the mall!

    The tension between following Jesus and following the letter — relationship and legalism — goes back a very long way, for sure. There’s something very human about creating “fences.” And I think that struggle within a believer is often a very honest one. I’d guess maybe it’s when that struggle has disappeared (in favor of legalism, that is) that the biggest problems within church history have arisen.

    Great point about “True Love Waits” being an important shift in the way Christians address sex! Yes, just talking about it at all was a big step! And I agree; purity is about much more than sex, and a big part of its purpose is strengthening those relationships you mentioned. I talked a little bit about that in my comment to Jamie. Purity is about what God has done and is doing within you. The kind of relationship he offers — one that is fluid, in which he feels with and responds intimately and uniquely to you — is, of course, where purity begins. But it’s also a source of encouragement and strength and renewal for a believer struggling to live his/her life within the purity God desires and makes possible for us. (I think it’s impossible not to struggle, though the level of struggle fluctuates between believers and issues.)

    Okay. That’s it for now. I’ve got more thoughts. But my time’s up too!

  • [...] issues. And I figure two of the biggest stink-raisers will be sex (which I’ve written about here) and rock n’ roll (which I’ve written about here and [...]

  • Just read this-very good stuff. After watching friends that have never dated enter into their first major relationship at age 27 I am grateful for “playing the field.” Some experience (granted my lips might have gone overboard) isn’t a bad thing… Loved what you had to say about sexuality and worship as well as the idea of participating only for the “feeling”.

    I am a little behind on reading but had a free afternoon!

  • Thanks, Keri! Overboard lips! Ha. My lips surely know the feeling, but I agree. The field can be awfully daunting (and sometimes deceiving!) to those with absolutely no experience. I’ve got some more thoughts brewing about sexuality and worship that I’m still working out. Maybe that’ll be my first post when I return from my Blogging Sabbatical.

    I’m glad you’re catching up! I must warn you, though. Not all of For the Record is so intellectually stimulating. One free afternoon between these two sites could easily turn your brain to mush!

  • Okay, okay. I knew you were waiting for me to respond.

    First: dude, you shoulda been backstage at Grace. You thought it was crazy during the services. (If a certain band leader, who happens to be my former boss, reads this…it’s a joke.)

    Second: about kissing and such. One time, on an Xbox game (I know this instantly depicts me as a nerd, but hear me out!) I saw a little icon that said, “Don’t make illegal copies of this disc.” This was not a warning but a challenge. And so it is with the kissing controversy. Hopefully the Old Testament teaches us that whenever you make rules (or should I use passive voice: “whenever rules are made…”, yes, I like that better) Whenever rules are made, you’re dying to break them. When I say, “Hey, whatever you do, don’t think about LOTR.” Some people were just naturally thinking about LOTR before I said it. But otherwise, it’s really difficult to stop thinking about it.

    So, you’re prob the only one who’ll read this response, but at least I feel better.

  • Joseph! Yes, I was waiting on you. I haven’t slept since I wrote this post, just waiting for you to reply. (I’m glad you did!)

    First: Should anyone ever read anything ever on this blog, I reserve the right to claim, “It’s a joke!”

    Second: I haven’t stopped thinking about LOTR all day now. (LOTR and Xbox?)

    Seriously, though, your point is a really solid one, and a really good one to think about in regard to Christianity in general and to parenting, I think.

    You know, you could carry LOTR one step further, if you wanted. “Whatever you do, Froto, don’t wear this awesome ring. Just put it in your pocket & be willing to die for it.”

    Or in real life, “Whatever you, don’t think about sex. Just wear this ring that stands for not having sex and look at it all the time, but don’t think about sex!”

    So. Good thinkin’!

    (We give a free pass to the passive voice at FtR. Sometimes, we even encourage it! And by “we,” I mean, “I.”)


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