I’m pretty interested in personality stuff — learning more about myself and my motives, more about the people in my life and how I can relate to them better. And since Caelyn came along, personality comes up almost every time we have visitors. They want to know. Is she like me or is she like Chris? What are we in for?
But lately, the topic’s come up in some very specific ways that have really got me thinking. . . .
Earlier this week, Chris and I had a revealing conversation. He’d finished up with work early and wanted to get out with Caelyn and me. I wanted the same; in fact, the places on his list were ideas that I had thought of earlier. But I was in the middle of a post here on For the Record. I still wanted to go. I just wanted to finish the draft first.
Chris: “We’ll just stay and go tomorrow. You should finish. I know it’s important to you.”
Me: “It’s not important. I just want to finish this train of thought. You can go to the Apple store without me if you don’t want to wait. It’s okay.”
Chris: “It IS important.”
Me: “What? Blogging is important? Blogging?!”
Chris: “Sure. You enjoy it, right?”
Me: “Yeah, but that doesn’t make it important.”
Chris: “Enjoyment should be one of the top qualifications for making something important.”
Me: “Personal enjoyment’s at the bottom of my list of Important Qualifications! I mean, it’s nice if I enjoy doing something that’s important, but the fact that it’s enjoyable doesn’t make it important.”
Chris: “What?!? How much I will enjoy something is one of the main factors I consider when making a personal decision.”
Me: “Oh, I know. But you know me — Everything that’s worthwhile has to make you miserable at least every now and then. Sadness, pain, hard work. They all go hand-in-hand with beauty.”
Chris: “And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why my wife’s a writer.”
Me: “What’s that supposed to mean?”
Chris: “I’m just sayin’. You’re in good company.”
Me: “I guess that’s true.”
Chris: “Okay. Well, you hardly ever get to do anything just for you, solely because you enjoy it. And I think it’s important that you do. So here’s the deal: I’m taking Caelyn to the mall and you’re staying here and finishing that post and relaxing.”
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how Chris and Caelyn wound up spending time outside of the apartment together for the very first time. Dads and daughters hitting up Sonic together and strolling around the mall? Now that really is important to me. (Even if I have to admit that, in my weak moments, it could make me just the tiniest bit jealous too. I can be frustratingly contradicting, but the level-headedness in me usually keeps my focus on the right thing. When you read about numbers later, that’ll make more sense.)
The place to be for parental bonding, slushes, and roller-skates.
***
Then our friends Andrew and Cristin came over for dinner one night. For the Record came up. “Whenever I read your blog, I’m like, ‘This is a whole different Katy.’ It’s the intellectual you. No, intellectual’s not really the right word. It’s, I don’t know, just a whole other side,” Cristin said. I don’t know if that’s true or not. I try to be authentic in almost everything I do. I am intentional on here. I do use writing to assert myself and express my power. And the me you get in writing is usually the real me. (That’s more true for poetry.) But I do get what she’s talking about.
Then my sister and I were talking on the phone and she mentioned how she and Mom think I always see the good in people, even to my detriment. I guess that could be true. (Okay, it IS true.) But I don’t think it’s entirely accurate. Unless something has gone awfully, horribly, betrayal-beyond-betrayal wrong between us, I’ll see the good in you. (And, really, if I stop seeing it, it’s probably because I’ve convinced myself that it’s the right, healthy thing to do.) But, unlike most good-see-ers, I don’t miss the bad. I might even see it first. Maybe even before anyone else.
– Although I admit that when we don’t spend much time together, I romanticize the good and discredit, if not forget, the bad. And then when we do spend a lot of time together, the bad may well start outshining the good. It’ll make me nervous. It’ll bother me. But I probably won’t bolt or leave you in a ditch. I’m far too loyal. And I don’t mind feeling like I’m missing something. That things could be better. That there’s an ideal we haven’t reached. (Not that I feel that way in my marriage.) In fact, I kind of thrive on nostalgia and longing. That’s probably bad, but it does make me a better poet. –
I just choose to take on both the good and the bad. And, really, if I was honest, I’d admit that I often think there’s equal value in both, even when the bad negatively affects me. It’s not that I’m naive to a fault. If anything, I forgive to a fault.
Not too long before that conversation, Cristin and I went to lunch and discussed our husbands’ very similar, but very different, personalities. “I think we finally figured Chris out,” she told me. “There’s nothing to figure out. He’s who you see all the time. He’s just Chris.” I confirmed that she was right about that. Chris and I had discussed it at length before. Honestly, me figuring that out was an important step in our communication as husband and wife.
I’m multi-layered. I’ve got layers that I reserve for one or two people in a lifetime. I talk a decent amount, but I don’t say a third of what I think. And what I do say often has multiple meanings. (Yes, my Communication degree informs me that that’s not playing fair.) I sometimes think I’m a big mess, even though, after years of practice, I’m pretty self-confident too. I’m self-aware and that awareness sometimes breaks down to self-consciousness. I feel things very intensely. I’m passionate, Romantic, and sometimes conflicted, but there’s a good chance you’d never know it. (Unless you visit The Record on personality day.) Because I’m also logical, patient, tolerant, and sarcastic. I’m all drama on the inside (usually balanced with intuition, intellect, and logic) and (generally) calm, cool, and collected on the outside.
(Now I’ve probably set my sometimes-drama-on-the-outside, need-meeter, people-analyzing, psychologist sister in a minor tizzy. Try not to worry, Jen.)
And it took me a while to realize that Chris wasn’t the same way. He says what he means and means what he says. And most of the time, he won’t change his mind about what he’s said because, in the serious moments, he weighs each of his words carefully before speaking them.
Which leads me to yesterday, when Lex posted about the Enneagram, and today, when our circle has been discussing personalities. The Enneagram’s pretty interesting and insightful. I’ve taken lots of personality tests, but not one like this. (Some people have probably done some fishy stuff with it, but I don’t think that detracts from its usefulness in relationships and ministry, like Lex discussed.)
***
What I like about it is that it doesn’t box you in. There are 9 numbers, representing 9 different styles. Each style has a wing — one of the numbers on either side of your number — that a person will likely “borrow” qualities from. Each number also corresponds to two others — two other points on the enneagram shape. At your best (integration/growth point) and your worst (disintegration/stress point), you display qualities from those two numbers, probably one more than the other. So that means I can be a feeling Four and still be a shy, intellectual thinker, because Five is a wing option for me. It also means that I can be orderly and detail loving, like my connecting One. And even as a self-focused/relationship-focused Four, I can be giving and compassionate, even beyond what I should, like my connecting Two.
That versatility, along with the motivators that correlate with each number, gives us a greater depth of understanding of ourselves and each other than, say, The Myers-Briggs. I’m an INFP. But part of me would make a better INFJ because I’m an intuitive perfectionist (about doing specific things my own specific way) who generally follows the rules, unless, of course, the right person or situation convinces me to do otherwise.
(Parenting Note to Self: That’s because I like making people happy and value peace. I don’t mind rules, until the right mix of emotions is evoked or the happiness of someone I care about is at stake or my ability to be who I perceive myself to be is threatened. Of course, that was more of a concern when I was a teenager, but that makes it all the more applicable to this note. Too often I obey the rules for all the wrong reasons. That can be good in that it allows me to see which rules really shouldn’t be obeyed, but it can be a disaster too.)
But it can’t happen. There’s no INFP-j.
By the way, as a Four, one of my favorite things about being an INFP, and slightly an INFJ, is that both are the least popular of the Myers-Briggs personality types. And, as a Four, this post is both exhilarating and intimidating to me. I really like “figuring myself out” and I really like figuring you out and how that shapes our relationships. And I like knowing your perceptions of me. But, one way or another, I know I’ll incorporate your perceptions into my own perception at least a little bit. And this kind of post totally messes with the identity I’ve established here on For the Record. Or at least I’ll worry that it does.
But I think it’s worth it.
And I think you should give it a shot too. Go check out Lex’s blog and the discussion we’ve all been having there. Take the test. (Here’s another one that worked better for Jamie. I took all three and came up with the same answer.) Chime in — on yourself and others — if you want.
I’ve only been thinking about this for an evening and half a day. I haven’t even had a chance to think through my in-laws and close friends. But here are my guesses for my immediate family:
* Chris: Five with a Four Wing
(Which makes us alike but different. I like what this article says about Five’s take on stupidity. Now, Chris isn’t hardly that condescending or arrogant. In fact, he’s one of the most humble people I know who truly values his relationships. But he’s got a low tolerance for stupidity. I think how we respond to “stupid people” illustrates his head approach and my heart approach. I say, “How can they be so selfish!” and get all worked up about it. He responds, “It’s not selfishness. People are just stupid. Anticipate it. Accept it. And ignore it or laugh about it.” I’ll invest in people who do stupid things, even though I wish they didn’t. Chris won’t even bother.)
* Dad: Five with a Six Wing (or maybe the reverse)
* Mom: One with a Two Wing
* Jen: Two with a Balanced One and Three Wing
* Kevin: Five with a Six Wing
I’ve got lots of thoughts on why. But that would spoil it for you. And I’ve got lots of thoughts on how I match up with my number. But I’ve said enough about me for now.
Besides, isn’t this post long enough?
49 Comments
February 8, 2008 at 6:31 pm
Interesting insight on the differences between you and Chris. It’s easy to point out differences between two people (especially a married couple), but to be able to see the motivation is different. It de-trivializes those things we write off as “quirks,” doesn’t it?
I’m glad you’re enjoying the Enneagram stuff as much as I am. I ordered a book called “Parables & The Enneagram,” which looks at Jesus’ Parables with an Enneagram perspective. I’ll let you know what I think.
Also, I won’t act like I haven’t been trying to guess the Gilmore Girls characters. What do you think? Is Rory a Five? Lorelai a Seven? Richard a One and Emily an Eight? Taylor a Six, Jess a Four, Logan a Three, Sukie a Two, and Jackson a Nine? What’s Luke (One, Six, Four)? Lane (Seven, Four)?
February 8, 2008 at 7:58 pm
“De-trivializing” the quirks is a good way to put it, Lex. I think that makes the Enneagram more effective than other personality profiling systems too. With those, you just get a list of characteristics. That helps in relating to/communicating w/ people, but only briefly. Eventually, “we’re just different” isn’t enough. You know?
Actually, avarice stumped me for a minute w/ Chris, because he’s not greedy financially. He spends too much on gifts for me, but only me. He doesn’t often have trouble spending on things he enjoys. (Hello integrating to the Seven.) But it makes a lot of sense in regard to time, energy, and mental/emotional resources. I like how they paired that up w/ compartmentalizing too. That makes how he interacts w/ me (and me vs. other people) make so much more sense! I’d never thought of myself as “envious” either, & I still don’t in the “conventional” sense. But the way it’s explained here makes me see it as a real motivator for me, at least in some regards. And it makes things I’ve done/the way I’ve handled relationships before make a whole lot of sense to me, when they used to just baffle me, no matter how long I thought about them.
So, yeah, good stuff.
I’m looking forward to hearing what you think about the book. Sounds interesting!
And, of course, you’ve been trying to guess the GG characters. And, of course, I’m totally on board w/ this idea! (This post’s title is kind of an allusion to a GG episode.) But I don’t have any real guesses yet. Chris has the flu, so I’m going to sleep on the couch tonight, which means I’ll probably stay up too late. I can’t think of a better thing to give my late-night thinking hours to. I let you know how it turns out.
February 8, 2008 at 9:06 pm
Also, I was just rocking Caelyn & wondering when she’ll be old enough to show a style. What do you think?
I can think of a few things about my childhood that point to a Four. (Sorry if this is repeated info. I’m sure I’ve told you this stuff before. But I’ve never connected it to the Enneagram. And some of the other readers won’t know it.)
For one thing, I was very sensitive, like cry whenever my sister got a spanking, even for mistreating me, sensitive. At 3, I had an imaginary friend, Jake, who was quite a bit older than me. I made him that way so that: a) He could have as many pets as he wanted in his very own house and b) He could take us anywhere we wanted to go. I’d say, at 3, that was pretty much my Ideal. From about 4 on, I pretended to be extremely poor. Actually, I really, really wanted to be poor. I thought it would cause me to appreciate things more, to be more creative, and, I guess, different from my friends. I wouldn’t have been able to describe it this way back then, but I really thought there was something beautiful and romantic about it. It’s certainly not incidental that I wasn’t poor or needy or lacking in anything in real life. I also fantasized about being kidnapped. And I really wanted leg braces or teeth braces or crutches. Or even to be blind! This girl in my kindergarten class, Laura, had those corrective shoes with braces, and I thought she was really cool.
I guess those things could seem worrisome, like I had a troubled home (which I definitely didn’t, which is probably exactly why I fantasized about them). I used to think I was just a quirky kid. But they make perfect sense for a Four!
February 8, 2008 at 10:40 pm
Okay, Lex, here are my GG guesses. I’m not sure on each yet. Maybe I’ll give this some more thought & add explanations in a dedicated post. (You got to do it with hip-hop. It’s only fair that I get to do with with GG.)
I’m feelin’ most of your guesses. I added in Dean too.
Rory: Five (or maybe One)
Lorelai: Seven all the way
Richard: One (but sometimes he seems an Eight)
Emily: Solid Eight (Even though Eight made the most sense, I wasn’t convinced until I read the Intimate profile that parallels the Eight’s coarseness and use of power with her hidden softer side/desire for love.)
Taylor: A Six, but a Social Six
Jess: Four in every way
Dean: A Nine, but an Intimate Nine
Logan: Three
Sukie: the appropriate side-kick Two
Jackson: Nine
Luke: Six (He’s romantic enough to be a Four, but he never doubts his happiness and fulfillment with Lorelai, and he’s not concerned enough about aesthetics. But he does have curtains and he is concerned about maintaining his flannel/baseball-cap/no-silliness/no-town-stuff image, so maybe he is a Four. But I think I see him as a Six more.)
Lane: She’s definitely got a little Seven in her, which helps her identify with Lorelai even more than with her best friend Rory, but I’d guess she’s a stronger Four.
February 9, 2008 at 8:28 am
Yeah, the reason I thought Luke could be a Four is his thing for symbolism–he kept the horoscope, changed his cap, kept his father’s sign (and the order he wrote on the wall), bought the TV, etc.–he’s very prone to communicating in symbols. And, no, he’s not aesthetic in the sense of being stylish, but a phrase I’ve seen used about Fours is “aesthetically correct,” which I think fits him.
February 9, 2008 at 9:17 am
Ooo, Lex! Those are really good points!
Here’s why I guessed Six: He’s very much a glue for Stars Hollow. He’s a worrier. He gets nervous when things are going well. He’s rational but inhibited by fear. He’s skeptical of/resistant to authority, information, and technology, yet often gives away his power. He’s always thinking about the worst thing that could happen. And he has trouble relaxing.
But he’s no groupie. That’s a pretty big catch.
Big enough that I should spend more time thinking about him as a Four. So . . .
“Aesthetically correct” captures what I was trying to say about him maintaining his own image. That’s a good phrase.
And you’re right about the symbols. I should’ve thought of that. (That’s always been one of my favorite things about Luke and the way he shows that he cares about Lorelai and the other important people in his life.) I think we also see him interpreting symbols from Lorelai that she never intended to send. (I can’t think of an example right now, though.)
Obviously, longing suits him, since he pinned for Lorelai for so long. Also, his view of Rachel and how he interacted with her is pretty Fourish (longing/getting/rejecting). Maybe you could even say that he tried to apply what he learned about himself with Rachel to his relationship with Lorelai.
Plus, he’s very intentional about not being like Stars Hollow, but still in Stars Hollow. He’s a loner, but wants desperately the perfect love he’s always imagined. He gets very upset/worried about things that others would see as no big deal. He’s got a handful of tangled relationships. He’s dramatic. And he may even take a secret pride in his laments.
Not only that, but I can see him, through the filter of maintaining his personal relationships, connecting to the One — being orderly in running the diner, orderly in pursuing Lorelai, orderly in taking care of himself, feeling a responsibility to the town, the girls, and his father — and to the Two — most obviously by helping the girls, but also in his relationships with Liz, TJ, Jess, and even Kirk.
So maybe I’m changing my vote.
Or maybe he’s a Six character developed by a Four writer.
February 9, 2008 at 9:46 am
I ‘m a 1, Katy. Jerry hasn’t taken it yet. I love these tests and keep taking them hoping I’m not a 1. Oh well…….
February 9, 2008 at 10:58 am
Jan, I knew you would enjoy this stuff! I can see you as a One. But don’t be discouraged! The Apostle Paul was a One!
Did you visit the other site? It has a couple other test options & more information about each style. One thing about most of the stuff on the Web is that it tends to focus on the negative/unhealthy qualities of each style. I guess that’s because those are the qualities we need the most help with!
I’ll be interested in Jerry’s number. Do you have any guesses for Trev, Nate, Finley, or Chris? Grampy, Grammie, and MeMa would be fun to think about too.
You’ll have to tell Chris to take the test. There’s no way I could get him to participate. But you got him to take the test that matches you up with an animal! You must still have some “mother power” over him. :)
If I do a GG Enneagram post, you’ll have to weigh in too!
February 9, 2008 at 11:47 am
and you may be mis-typed. Check out http://www.INFJorINFP.com
February 9, 2008 at 12:47 pm
[...] Photos Written In the Numbers [...]
February 9, 2008 at 4:19 pm
The advice I’ve received is that no matter what style you are, you’ll first see all the worst of it (unless you’re a Seven), but you need to embrace it for the good parts.
February 9, 2008 at 4:25 pm
I’m a 9. Really? That’s what it says.
So are my “wings” the numbers connected to the 9 by lines…thus 3 and 6? So a peacemaker with achiever and loyalist tendencies…yeah, that sounds about right, if I’m reading it right.
February 9, 2008 at 4:35 pm
That’s good advice, Lex. It’s gotta be hard for Ones to see the (many) good parts of their style, though, being critics and all.
Steve, I can see you as a peacemaker. Your “wings” are actually the numbers on either side of your number. So your “wing” is either an Eight or a One. You should have some qualities from those, possibly in balanced proportion, but more likely one side will be stronger than the other. But you’re still right about Three and Six playing a role in your style. Those are your stress and growth points. You “integrate” and “disintegrate” to those two styles. So at your best and your worst, you probably behave/think somewhat like one or the other.
Is that right, Lex? You know a lot more about this than me.
February 9, 2008 at 5:15 pm
Yep, you’ve got it right. I think it might be possible to not have a wing (which might be the same as having a balanced proportion).
There are a few different theories on wings and stress/growth points, but the general idea is still the same.
February 9, 2008 at 5:16 pm
Oh, yeah, Steve. I meant to tell you that when my sister first started reading the blog, she told me that she thinks you’re the kind of person who interacts authentically and equally well with all different kinds of people. I’m trying to think of the example she used. Something like, “He’s the kind of guy who can have a fun time and good conversation with Matt Chandler, then turn around and do the same with Kevin, and make both feel comfortable.” I don’t think she actually named Matt, but I know you know him and, socially at least (I don’t know him very well at all), he’s the total opposite of Kevin.
Just a little something else to think about.
February 10, 2008 at 9:57 am
So, yeah I enjoy analyzing myself and others – I tried identifying myself according to the descriptions on 9types. I am definitely a 9, but I don’t feel I identify much with 8 or 1 (well maybe 1 a little), and I feel I have some 4-ish tendencies, and that doesn’t connect. Nate is definitely a 1, with more than a few 4 characteristics. What do you think??
February 10, 2008 at 2:06 pm
The first time I took the test, going from Lex’s blog, it said I’m a 1 and called it “The Critic”, which is different from the diagram I see posted here. I’ll go take it again later (hopefully when there’s not a baby screaming at the top of her lungs) and chime back in. Kev has redeemed his Netflix gift and hijacked the computer for the weekend! He’s in the middle of a documentary and will want to get back to it upon Claire’s nap!
February 10, 2008 at 2:14 pm
Okay, Katy, I just took the other/quick test which came back tie-scored on 1 and 2, with also 3 being high…so I think you’re probably right about me!
February 10, 2008 at 4:48 pm
Trev, I can see you as a Nine. I don’t see any Eight in you either. But there’s got to be at least a little One in a girl who used to love organizing her crayons! :) From what I understand, you don’t have to have a wing, its just likely that you’ll have qualities from at least one number on either side of yours. So you could be a Nine w/ a slight One wing. Or just a Nine. Also consider your connecting growth & stress points. For a Nine, those are Three & Six. You might also check out this info. All those tiny links on the side take you to more Nine info. (I didn’t realize that at first. Chris would NOT approve of this navigation system!)
What do I think? Well, I’m just guessing, but . . .
I think a Nine w/ a One wing makes sense for you when you consider the growth & stress points. I can see many Three & Six qualities in you through the filter of a Nine:
On the Three side, you’re hard-working, fast-learning, efficient, productive, & successful in most things. In situations where you feel comfortable, you’re charismatic & diplomatic. On the Six side, you’re loyal, concerned w/ the common good, & always willing to help make things run smoothly. You have a good sense of humor and enjoy community & traditions. I’d guess that you can be a worrier — particularly about relationships & whether or not you’ve been understood correctly (like a Four) and if you’ve offended anyone (like a Nine & a little like a Four). You can be suspicious of authority (or potential authority, like Pres. candidates), even though you believe respecting authority & abiding by rules helps the world run better. You try to be sympathetic to the reasons why people rebel against those rules, without excusing their actions. Every now and then, you see someone break out of the box in a way you wish you could. But you are imaginative — like Sixes — and sprinkle creativity into most of what you do, while not throwing common sense or convention out the window. (That’s kind of Fourish, but change “sprinkle” to “douse.” And unhealthy Fours let their emotions pull them right out that window.) Like Fours, you have an appreciation for art — music — and are sensitive, but you rarely show it because you’re easy-going & don’t like to rock the boat. Even though you’re modest & reserved, you desire deep connections with a select few. And that makes Nate’s Four qualities a good match for you! If Nate’s a One, his stress/growth points are Seven & Four. And, yes, with Nate, I’d say Four is his main integration/disintegration point!
Whew! What do you think? Am I far off?
February 10, 2008 at 4:52 pm
JSmo, Yes! You know what happens when you get a tie on one of those tests? Somewhere the little geek who’s running the Internet Mother Computer yells, “BONUS!”
Different organizations have different names for the styles, but the qualities of each are the same, I think. I just used that image because it was a decent looking one without a copyright attached to it. I figure they used “Reformer,” because they thought Ones might be critical of the label “Critic.”
So what do you think of my guesses for the rest of the family? Would you have pegged me as a Four?
And you’re always saying you’d like to see GG characters in your office. Now’s your chance!
February 10, 2008 at 5:01 pm
Ok, Jerry is a tie between 9 and 3.
February 10, 2008 at 5:21 pm
Hmm. Did he take more than one test?
Well, either way, the Nine and the Three are closely connected. And he does have a lot of Three qualities and he does enjoy peace. So I guess that makes sense! I wonder; if he’s tied on Nine and Three does that mean Six is both his integration and disintegration point? I think hard-working, loyal, and humorous, from the Six style, match him. The Six’s imagination and tendency to think up the worst that could possibly happen combined with the Three’s optimistic drive play well into his job as an engineer.
February 10, 2008 at 9:19 pm
Katy – Jan was a bit off on her report (she took the test for me) – I took it tonite and came up a 5 (Observer) vs Peacemaker.
She thought you should know.
Jerry
February 11, 2008 at 7:34 am
You two are too funny!
Jen & I were talking about how some people have an “authentic” self that they show with family (and themselves) and a “social” self that dominates at work and with friends. I see her as mainly a One with the family, but a Two with friends and at work. (I chose Two for her, because I think she’s often a Two with Kevin too, and Two allows her both characteristics from One and Three.) Maybe that has something to do with the difference in results when you took the test and when Jan took it for you.
A Five does make more sense for you, I think. I could see you as productive, hard-working, and successful, like a Three, and as sacrificing for the peace, like a Nine. (Your taking the test and responding because Jan wanted you to is evidence of that. Chris, who I think is a Five, wouldn’t do that! Perhaps you’re just older and wiser. :) ) But I think you could have all of those from the Five and the Six wing. Hard-work, loyalty, humor, imagination, commitment to family/church/tradition, and “what if-ing” from the Six suit you well, I think. As a Five, your stress/growth points are Seven & Eight. I don’t see any Eight. But your enthusiasm about new projects could be Sevenish.
Jan, I’m liking you as a One even more now that I think about Seven and Four as your connecting points. Four covers your love of music, design, decorating, language, and photography. Seven covers your bursts of excitement about new ideas, like when you returned from Red River the first time.
February 11, 2008 at 7:55 am
P.S. I hope everyone remembers that I’m not an expert (and I know it)! I’m not even well-read. I’m just learning and trying this thing out because I think it could be very useful and lots of fun.
February 11, 2008 at 8:18 am
It’s fun reading your in-laws (I take it) responses. Taking the test for someone else seems very One.
If Chris isn’t interested in the enneagram, I’d question his Five-ness. Fives hoard information, and this is information. My sister’s a Five, and she knew the Enneagram backwards and forwards within a 12 hour period of me introducing it to her (well, maybe not backwards, but she knew a lot).
February 11, 2008 at 9:33 am
Lex! I know! That’s exactly what I was thinking! And, yes, they are my in-laws.
You might be right about Chris. I see a lot of Five in him (more than the others), but some things don’t match up. We both love info, but in different ways:
I loved college. I love knowledge. I like remembering and “rehearsing” details, so I can hold on to moments and feelings and have a better sense of myself and my relationships. (I think that’s Four integrating/disintegrating to One.) I like doing well and receiving affirmation from those I respect. In HS and college, I liked doing well in the face of being told that my methods wouldn’t work. I like doing things my own way and having it acknowledged as creative and effective. I feel guilty when I disappoint people I love, but I really like learning and doing well because of how it shapes my identity. I like using what I learn to better understand myself, my past, and my relationships and to help others now. I get nostalgic about my college days, both for the learning and the relationships they held. Sometimes, I get wistful about getting a PhD and becoming a professor. I love literature for its inherent beauty and revelation of humanity, including its mysterious connection to me and its ability to reflect my feelings.
Chris doesn’t care a lick about school or what anyone, expert or otherwise, thinks of his performance and ideas. (The people he regards as the top web designers in the world are the exception to that rule. And he does appreciate/need affirmation from the people he loves.) He likes learning, but hates school. He’s more prone to think about how his life could’ve been better if he hadn’t gone to college than if he’d stayed in forever. He loves talk radio. He loves the news. He loves to read, but in general, devotes himself to books about theology, history, technology, and web design. He’ll add to that sports, humor, and things he’d like to learn — like card tricks or a specific form of guitar playing. He doesn’t invest in the relationships and feelings tied up in fiction. As for the enneagram, I don’t know. I don’t think he wonders about who he “really” is, who others “really” are, or how they perceive him. He sees and accepts. He probably thinks stuff like this is a little silly. Like he just came out, looked at my screen, and said, “Personality, personality.” When the GG’s on, he says, “Gilmore, Gilmore.” But I’m not sure why.
So, with all the info you’ve gathered on him over the last few days, what’s your guess now?
What are your guesses for your mom and your dad?
February 11, 2008 at 10:00 am
Also, I think we would both say love without knowledge is foolishness. (If it were my phrase, I’d say “can be foolishness.”) But if forced to choose one as the eternal value, my head would remind me how important “knowledge” is, but my heart would say “love.” And “love” would win hands-down every time. Chris’ head would remind him that God values “love” so he should too. But his heart would say “knowledge.” And “knowledge” would probably win in the end.
February 11, 2008 at 10:40 am
I took the test for Chris from my perspective and he tied between 1,5,& 9. He needs to settle this thing for us once and for all.
February 11, 2008 at 11:01 am
Okay Katy, I thought that was a pretty good assessment. I just took the test on 9types, and had equal score, 7, on 9 and 3. My lowest scores were on 6, 7, & 8. I scored 4 on types 1 & 2, 5 on 4, and 6 on 5. Which tells me the same thing that I think other test have told me, that I feel like a pretty mixed bag. Either that, or I just don’t take these tests well :) I enjoy my “diversity” most of the time, but it definitely causes inner turmoil sometimes.
And after reading about dad’s score, I think we share this profile. The two biggest issues: the conflict between easygoing 9 and perfectionist 1, and the desire to pursue personal interests vs the more logical (or practical) desire for security and predictability.
February 11, 2008 at 11:08 am
I’ve got Chris figured out. He’s an Eight with a heavy Nine wing. Rack ‘em.
PS – Here’s Helen Palmer’s Enneagram site:
http://www.enneagramworldwide.com/
It’s her theory that I was introduced to.
February 11, 2008 at 4:37 pm
Jan, One, Five, and Nine, eh? Well, he certainly has tendencies from each of those. How ’bout I give one example from each: One — He can’t stand it when I don’t unpack my suitcase, whether it takes me one day or two weeks. Five — He feels drained after spending the day with a large group, even of family members. Nine — We all know how long it takes us to choose a place to eat, even with you or my sister around. Just imagine what it’s like with just the two of us!
He does need to settle this once and for all. I’ll tell him you said so.
Trev, no test is fool proof! :) I enjoy your diversity too. But maybe with some more time/research, you could narrow it down. I think that’s a good assessment of your internal conflicts. I wonder, though, what it would be like if you were left completely to your own devices. In other words, how much of that struggle is innately within you and how much comes from growing up with your parents and living/making decisions with Nathan now? (With Nate being a One, integrating/disintegrating primarily to the Four, I’d guess he feels that same struggle between following his interests and having security. I know I sometimes do, even as a Four integrating/disintegrating to the One.
Lex! Interesting theory! That would allow for a lot of the things I’ve been describing. His tendency to think what he feels and to relish solitude led me to Five. Also, he’s sometimes sensitive (pretty much just with me) and always artistic with some Snob tendencies about dress, coffee, electronics, etc, that a Four wing would cover. My catch with Eight has been how much he dislikes conflict. But there are times when he’d rather deal with conflict than deal with sacrificing something or watching me sacrifice beyond what he thinks is necessary or right. The strong Nine wing would answer his general distaste for conflict, right? (It’s kind of weird that Eight and Nine are side-by-side.)
For being so not mysterious, Chris sure is hard to nail down! I wonder if I’ve spent almost too much one-on-one time with him in the last three years, if maybe that’s made it harder for me to consider the way he interacts with other people and, therefore, harder to make a complete/accurate assessment? I need to read more, I guess. Thanks for the link! It’s got some good info. (I do already have some more thoughts about it that I’ll try to share with you when I get a minute.)
Here’s another thing. Walt’s a Five. I mean, what else could he be? He’s Walt. Chris and I have talked about how much he and Walt are alike but different. I guess the most obvious difference is that Walt is more open-minded than Chris. And Chris adheres to things longer and more rigidly than Walt. (Walt and/or Chris, feel free to disagree.) As an Eight, Chris could have a strong connection to Five, (which could explain similarities to Five Walt and to Four Wing Five Me) and to Two (one of my stress/growth points), right?
February 11, 2008 at 5:51 pm
I’ve got two Eights in my CPE peer group. One is a strong Eight, very much a dominating person. The other is an Eight with a heavy Nine wing, and he fits a lot of the descriptions you given of Chris, and when I think about it, he’s a lot like the way I’ve experienced Chris. This guy is very passionate about his pre-existing interests (in his case: gardening, baseball, and systematic theology), but kind of sees everything else (including personality tests) as nonsense (“personality, personality!”). But, anyway, neither of them LIKE conflict. I don’t think Eights necessarily like conflict, they’re just ready to protect themselves, their family, their beliefs, their whatever it is.
Some of the ways you’ve described him are very Eight. You watch his shows, he mocks yours: Eight. He starts his own business: Eight. Doesn’t care what other people think about him: Eight. And from my own experience, he sticks to his guns even when his guns aren’t popular with people around him, which is Eight-ish.
Also, you talked about how he puts high value on enjoyment. That’s an eight thing. Eights want to live it up (in a different way than Sevens). Eight is the gut/instinct center, and enjoyment is something you judge with your gut/instincts, not with your thoughts or feelings. Eight! The man’s an Eight. I bet you Eight Dollars.
February 11, 2008 at 9:43 pm
I’ve only got a $10, Lex!
I still don’t know what to think, but what you’re saying makes a lot of sense. I don’t know why I didn’t initially think about the possibility of a heavy Nine wing softening an Eight. I just read domineering, powerful, and angry and thought “not Chris.” (Well, maybe he’s powerful in an unconventional way. He does exhibit a certain strength and confidence.) He also doesn’t particularly enjoy leadership positions (though he doesn’t reject them), and he’s not prone to bouts of anger or violence (verbal or physical). He does place high value on enjoyment, but he’s very disciplined. Or at least he works hard at being disciplined because he sees value in it. He’s not really “energetic.” And I still think all of the things I said about him, thinking he’s a Five, are all true. But they might make sense through the filter of an Eight with a heavy Nine wing and an integration/disintegration to the Five. His orderly tendencies and Snobbish leanings could make sense with an Eight too — controlling his space and his person, believing in particular ways of doing things.
It sounds like you’re right in comparing him to this guy in your CPE peer group. The more I think about Chris and conflict, the more I realize that he is willing to fight for what he thinks is important — if he thinks his “opponent” is a respectable one. Otherwise, I don’t think he’d exert the effort. He’ll also fight if he thinks the process of the fight will enhance one of his important relationships. He is prone to black-and-white thinking. He values truthfulness, maybe above all else. And you’re right about his guns. He prefers to be a part of a community that believes as he does, but if not, he’ll hold his own and won’t give up on whatever he’s decided is true. For him to change his mind about a belief, whether something he considers fundamental to his theology or a behavior that he sees as “wrong,” takes a long time, a lot of introspection, and input from someone he really, really respects. And it’s hard for me to picture him working for “the man.” (At a basic level, he’d get up every morning hating the fact that someone’s making him put on a tie.) In the real world, he never really has. Unless Jerry Hendrix is the man. (What style do you figure Jerry is?)
I guess I just don’t get to see that side of him very often. Sometimes it surprises me, like when he contacts some web designer he doesn’t know whose work he respects and asks to get coffee and discuss ideas. (I would never do that.) I’m just used to the Chris who’s generally willing to do whatever I want, except for things like watching GG or taking personality tests or wiggling his ears for goodness sake, and does his best to take care of me in the way he knows how. (I guess that’s kind of Eight-ish after all.)
February 12, 2008 at 2:21 pm
I’m behind on reading comments. So way back there when you said that I make Matt and Kevin feel comfortable, does that further support the fact that I’m a peacemaker? Or is that something else?
February 12, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Steve, I can’t imagine how you could get behind on comments! It’s not like there are very many here.
But seriously.
I think it supports you as a peacemaker. I also think it works with your Three integration/disintegration point.
So do you think Jen’s assessment is pretty accurate?
And did we ever hear what Lex thinks about you as a Nine?
February 12, 2008 at 3:37 pm
I took the test on 9types again and came back as a 2, with a 1, then 3. What does it say about the reliability of the test that we can take it and have different scores? What does it say about me that I question the reliability? I was interested in Helen Palmer’s website, but not enough to spend $10. Now, if she put the test on sale 1/2 price, I might go for it just because it’s such a great “deal”, but only if I can boast about the deal I got later!
February 12, 2008 at 5:40 pm
The test I first took in CPE was very simple…
Pick one statement from Group I, and one statement from Group II.
GROUP I
A. I have tended to be fairly independent and assertive: I’ve felt that life works best when you meet it head-on. I set my own goals, get involved, and want to make things happen. I don’t like sitting around–I want to achieve something big and have an impact. I don’t necessarily seek confrontations, but I don’t let people push me around, either. Most of the time I know what I want, and I go for it. I tend to work hard and play hard.
B. I have tended to be quiet and am used to being on my own. I usually don’t draw much attention to myself socially, and it’s generally unusual for me to assert myself all that forcefully. I don’t feel comfortable taking the lead or being as competitive as others. Many would probably say that I’m something of a dreamer–a lot of my excitement goes on in my imagination. I can be quite content without feeling I have to be active all the time.
C. I have tended to be extremely responsible and dedicated. I feel terrible if I don’t keep my commitments and do what’s expected of me. I want people to know that I’m there for them and that I’ll do what I believe is best for them. I’ve often made great personal sacrifices for the sake of others, whether they know it or not. I often don’t take adequate care of myself–I do the work that needs to be done and relax (and do what I really want) if there’s time left.
GROUP II
X. I am a person who usually maintains a positive outlook and feels that things will work out for the best. I can usually find something to be enthusiastic about and different ways to occupy myself. I like being around people and helping others to be happy–I enjoy sharing my own well-being with them. (I don’t always feel great, but I try not to show it to anyone!) However, staying positive has sometimes meant that I’ve put off dealing with my own problems for too long.
Y. I am a person who has strong feelings about things–most people can tell when I’m unhappy about something. I can be guarded with people, but I’m more sensitive than I let on. I want to know where I stand with others and who and what I can count on–it’s pretty clear to most people where they stand with me. When I’m upset about something, I want others to respond and to get as worked up as I am. I know the rules, but I don’t want people telling me what to do. I want to decide for myself.
Z. I tend to be self-controlled and logical–I am uncomfortable dealing with feelings. I am efficient–even perfectionistic–and prefer working on my own. When there are problems or personal conflicts, I try not to bring my feelings into the situation. Some say I’m too cool and detached, but I don’t want my emotional reactions to distract me from what’s really important to me. I usually don’t show my reactions when others “get to me.”
In case anyone needs clarification, I won’t put the key here, so that it won’t influence their decisions.
February 12, 2008 at 7:35 pm
JSmo, you do love a deal!
I was gonna say that after reading about the styles, we’re probably prone to (subconsciously) answer the questions a certain way. And as you read more and take the tests over, that inclination probably increases. I’m guessing that each of us probably has some qualities from each of the styles. So you read about them and think, “Well, I do that sometimes.” And that might influence the way you respond on the test. (That could also be why if we don’t know each other very well one-on-one, I can see characteristics in you — the universal you, not JSmo you — from whichever style you tell me. Unless it’s just way off.)
I’m totally making this up, but . . . .
You could also maybe get a slightly different (but related) answer depending on your mood. That makes sense when you consider stress/growth points, I think. For example, let’s say you’ve just had a long day and come home to find that Kevin’s done the laundry and now all of Claire’s pastel clothes have a dark blue tint. You might be more likely to respond “often” or “very accurate” to a statement like, “I usually know the right way to do things. If I want something done right, I should do it myself.”
But then Lex covered all that in one line at the end of his newest comment.
We should all just try this version out. It seems pretty clear cut. I know some are going to get antsy. So I think I’m right in saying, you should choose the one from each group that is MOST like you, even if you see some personal characteristics in the others.
Is that right, Lex?
February 12, 2008 at 7:39 pm
Thanks for taking the time to give us this version, Lex! Sorry if things have gotten too complicated. I’m glad you sparked such an interesting conversation; I’m having a lot of fun with the Enneagram! And it’s obvious that others are intrigued too.
So I want to tell you my answers, but then if you respond to me, that might influence someone else’s results, right? I guess I can just give you mine and you can wait to reveal the key after others chime in:
BY
PS — Out of curiosity, did you get the same answer with this test as with the online ones?
February 12, 2008 at 7:58 pm
[...] Personality Lovers Jump to Comments We’ve had a lot of fun over the last few days with the Enneagram, guessing our styles, guessing other people’s styles, taking tests, and talking about who we [...]
February 12, 2008 at 8:08 pm
Yeah, there was one online test (one of the ones that gives you numbers for each style) that gave me a tie (!?) between Four and Seven, but I’ve never not been a Four. I’m a pretty plain, stereotypical Four, though, without much of a wing.
How do you want to do the answers?
February 12, 2008 at 8:37 pm
I know I can’t really say it and expect anyone to believe me since you told us your number upfront, but I’d have guessed you as a solid Four, Lex.
The answers. I don’t know. I guess you could either:
– Wait until more people respond, post the key, and let people figure it out themselves or wait and leave a comment revealing everyone’s individual answers.
- Email each person’s answer to me when they respond and I can keep track of them and reveal them later or email the key to me and I can figure out everyone’s answers and then let them know on the blog somehow.
Whatever you want.
February 12, 2008 at 9:54 pm
My short answer: C,Y
Okay, on Group 1, I am mostly paragraph C, although I also have quite a bit of A in me as well. Paragraph C resonates with both my authentic and professional/social selves most of the time. I am not at all paragraph B, in any form or fashion.
Now, Group II is another story. Not to be complicated, but I think paragraph Y probably most accurately describes me out of the paragraphs written but not to a “T”. From “Z” I am also self-controlled and very logical, a definate perfectionist, and I enjoy working on my own, especially if I want something to be done “right”. But, I am not detached or cool. In fact, I probably am engaged to a fault at times.
This is where I really like MBTI. I am a person who experiences a wide range of emotions, and I often feel those emotions very intensely; but I don’t make decisions based on emotions. That is why I am a definate “T” (thinker) instead of an “F” (feeler). That specific item is based on decision making, not whether or not a person really experiences emotion. Kev is also a “T”, but his emotional range is usually much smaller than mine. In addition, the MBTI can show how a person will react under stress. My type, specifically, will move into feeling/emotion mode instead of thinking/logical mode. The Eenogram probably does something similar (?).
February 13, 2008 at 5:31 pm
Y really says alot about me and most of C. I think I take care of myself….sometimes even before the sacrifice! And I will get out of a situation before I suffer too much. It’s funny that Jen is similar to me…but I was never in a sorority or club because of the social demands. I WAS in BSU, tho. Katy, you are SO BY and you are much less likely to take care of yourself. I believe that’s called long-suffering.
February 14, 2008 at 1:34 pm
[...] Written in the Numbers My Comment Regarding Being a Four with a Five Wing: [...]
February 14, 2008 at 3:36 pm
JSmo, I agree w/ your assessment. I’d suggest that you read about both the Six & the One. I can see both as possibilities. The Six is a loyal, tradition lover who’s skeptical of people’s intentions and authority (but still submissive to authority) & who often thinks the world is a dangerous place. The Six needs to be on guard. (Think about your concern with being physically safe — making me check out strange noises — and your defensiveness when those you are loyal to are threatened — telling off “The Boss.”)
“Detached & Cool” isn’t you at home. Neither is not showing your reactions. BUT in your “social self,” I’d say that you are warm & comfortable dealing w/ feelings — especially other people’s — but you are also less likely to show how upset you are. You’re not going to let your anger get the best of you while you’re hosting a party. In your profession, you’re also warm, but you have to be detached & keep your feelings from influencing your counsel too much. You also have to keep from showing emotional responses. When you’ve taken time to cool down, you do the same thing in your personal conflicts. And you do the same in mediating conflicts between your family members.
You don’t like being bossed around. But do you think you know the rules but tend to decide for yourself? I’d guess that you like rules and feel safer/more confident when you have rules to follow and know others are following them too.
I don’t think choosing Z means you are choosing, “I don’t feel many/any emotions” strongly. I think it has more to do w/ the way emotions influence your actions/decisions/ sense of self. I don’t think it means a Z person never expresses emotion. A Y person, I think, is more inclined to make decisions based on feelings, intuition, & experience than facts, evidence, and logical thought processes. A Z person vice versa. The Y person isn’t necessarily an overtly emotional being.
But, of course, I’m speaking as a Four & I (now) know that Y goes with Four.
My decision was pretty obvious. I have way more similarities w/ B & Y than any others. But I have a few from the other paragraphs too.
A — I’m independent.
C — I feel terrible if I don’t keep my commitments and I often don’t take care of myself.
X — I feel that things will work out for the best.
Z — I am logical and perfectionistic. I usually don’t show my reactions when others “get to me.”
There are some key differences even in those similarities, though. Mainly in words like “tend,” “often,” & “usually.” To decide if it’s sometimes or often, I asked questions like these:
Q. “I make sacrifices for others. All others? Or only those others closest to me?”
A. Only those closest to me.
Q. “Do I ever sacrifice with people who aren’t close to me?”
A. Yes, but often because I feel intimidated. (That’s not to say that I want to choose where we eat. I really, really don’t.)
Q. “Do I feel things will work out for the best?”
A. Yes. But I think that’s going to be a long, painful process. There can’t be a best without the worst.
Q. “If I had to choose between logic & feeling for the rest of my life, which would I choose?”
A. Feeling. I’ve been wrong about logic. I can make up faulty logic to suit my wants. But my feelings are almost never wrong. Sometimes I choose to act against them. But I almost always regret it.
Q. “Am I always a perfectionist? Or only when the task is something I value or when I feel my identity will be compromised or when I’m worried that I’ll disappoint or be misread by someone I care about?”
A. Only in those cases.
Q. “Do I always hide it when others get to me?”
A. No. It takes a long time to get there, but when I blow up I let it show. I won’t have a dramatic fit, but I’ll tear you apart w/ intentionally biting sarcasm. Because I’m sensitive (although I really enjoy giving & receiving “playful banter” sarcasm), I know how deeply my words will cut. Also, I’ve had one too many strangers say, “Hey, girl, it’s not so bad. Smile!” when I can’t find the toothpaste at the grocery store to believe I hide it very well.
With my results in hand, I can see those similarities through the filter of a Four.
There are some things about my paragraphs that aren’t me:
B — Okay, that’s me 100%.
Y — Okay, that’s me too.
But I don’t think that I wear my emotions on my sleeve very often nor am I often outwardly dramatic. But I think the paragraph allows for that. (Maybe I just see it that way because I’m a Four and automatically look inward.)
With my results in hand, I can those differences allotted for in a Five wing.
February 14, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Jan, you’ve got me down!
When I’m my best, it’s called “long-suffering.” When I’m my worst, it’s called “stupidity.”
That’s why I need a mother-in-law who will call her son and tell him to give his wife the day off for Mother’s Day! :)
You and Jen do have some key differences. Absolutely. But I think you and Chris are very similar in your view of social organizations and activities!
February 25, 2008 at 3:09 pm
[...] was about suffering, which is always an interesting topic and I had some new perspective on it as a Four. We also took Caelyn to the zoo for the first time. And we watched Michael Clayton. Plus, we ate at [...]